As kids grow up thier parents tell them of thier caste, eg. "our whole family are doctors, it is in our blood - those scheduled castes are born to clean toilets etc. How can we let them come up to our 'Aukaad'?" It is basically statements like these ingrained since childhood in the subconcious of students that has lead them to protest to such an extent.
Here are some of the arguments given by the students and why it is total shit.
1. Meritless students entering will lead to inefficiency - We all know in India that many folks get into these so called prestigious institutes like AIIMS, IIT's and IIM's by paying touts lakhs to cheat in the exams. Even the marking system in exams is faulty. Ever wondered why those super intelligent classmates of yours never got into AIIMS/ IIT ? Those who get into these institutes maybe 90 percenters just coz they answered certain questions right on a certain lucky day - this should not mean that those who get 70 -80 percent have no merit -are useless - will be bad doctors. A Doctor should be a caring, compassionate person, genuinely interested in the welfare of patients - not a person who holds the entire country to ransom with threats to kill sick and defenceless patients by not attending to them, just because 'life' is a non-negotiable commodity.
2. I would not want to go to a doctor who got through on quota - What guarantee do we have that so called general candidates will make good doctors ? Many of these folks have radical ideas like Euthanasia. Those coming from doctor families learn tricks of the trade like not fully treating a patient so that he keeps coming back to you again and again for medicines. Anyway, all AIIMS interns don't become practising doctors - some do MBA and join the private sector, some go abroad, most women get married and become housewives, some like Palaash Sen become indi-flop stars. What about that weird naked AIIMS doctor - Sandhu with the guitar - forget about brain surgery I would'nt even let him check my pulse !!
3. Quotas have been there for the past 58 years, why still have it - that's coz over the past years the upper castes in power at the centre, state and local levels have never allowed the lower castes to make use of the quota system. Money sanctioned in the budget for thier development was siphoned off into the pockets of the powerful, leaving the SC/ST as poor and helpless as before.
4. Primary Education in the solution - when every Indian Citizen is provided equal quality education, then only we can talk about removing quotas. As of today, education in unequal and hence quotas are neccessary.
6. People are making fake SC/ST certificates - is a police problem. Just coz some subvert the law does'nt mean you repeal the law. eg. Just coz some women file fake rape cases should not mean that there should be no law against rape.
7. Only Creamy layer SC/ST's are benefiting - that's thier good fortune coz changing the law to exclude them would be difficult to legislate.
8. Police are using undue violence on the protesters - students all through history are known for getting over emotional on various causes - shout abuses, yell insulting slogans, make threats, form a pushing shoving crowd etc. Just coz the media censored thier bad behaviour does'nt mean it did not happen, as everyone who was ever a student knows. I still recall kids from DPS, Modern etc. holding a Dharna and threatening to break computers, when we were told that classes were cancelled due to a power cut at NIIT CP during a summer course. Cops are provided with lathis/batons and water cannons in all countries, in case the protesters 'Josh' increases and is used to disperse the crowd so public property is not destroyed. It also does not help, when publicity seekers like Navjot Singh Sidhu start 'Bhadka-ing' the students with his 'Krantikaari' quotes learnt from old hindi publications.
9. The congress will lose the next election - No Way !! coz we all know that students never vote. Most of themeither don't have ID cards or are never in thier constituency on voting day. The main vote bank of the Congress are the Scheduled Castes and other minorities that were ignored by the pro-rich BJP. As the Congress is now in power, they have a duty to fulfill thier pre election promises to thier voters so that they get elected next time also. Why should they bother about hot-headed upper caste Anti-Reservation students that would never vote for them even if thier demands were fulfilled ?
Hi,
ReplyDeleteRead your blog. Have a few comments. Please read with a rational mind open to ideas.
I dont know if you have ever faced the brunt of being in a so called upper class. If not just spend a few moments to read my experience.
I came from a middle class background.Dad served in tthe private sector and was the only source of income. He made it clear to me that if and only if I get admitted to the Govt engg college will we be able to afford a enginnering degree education. For your information fees for a year in govt college was 4000 rs at my time and in pvt colleges the fees was 32000 on paper + a minimum of 10000 extra.
Under that pressure i worked hard for entire class 12. I had only one coaching class for math under an elderly teacher i respect like God . He took only 75 rs a month for Math class.
I went to no other fancy classes.My dream was the computer stream in the govt college. Because of it's name that college has the best campus recruitment which offers a means to get a job with no "JACK" as mentioned in your earlier article. It means a way to rise in economic stature and sort of wipe out the past.
I got 96.33 % in my class 12. My father had tears in his eyes as he felt that I had fulfilled his dream..He got me a bouquet of flowers and a gold ring that I yet wear , the day the results were declared.
I applied and then the dream ended. In the open category the computer stream closed at close to 98%. Yes!!! There were 20 people atleast who had the same percentage. Meaning 20+ people with 97 in the open category.Such is the competition!!!
I did not get admitted to the stream I wanted . I had all the other private colleges open for me. some of best after the govt college for the stream I wanted. But I knew i cannot afford to get into a private college.My elder sister was in a private college already.
I chose a stream i did not want. I came home in shock.Many people who I knew had lesser percentage than me got in easily. These people were very well to do.Owned cars and a big house.
It was my time for tears that night. It is a feeling you will never know. My father consoled me. in vain.
When you say we are full of hate, think again abt a person who worked so hard only to see someone else walk off with what was rightfully his/hers.You ask me to just accept it as their good fortune?
Did u hear in the interview of Arjun singh that 50% of seats remain vacant and 50% of the others take more than 6 yrs to get their degree.
I had people in my class who had taken 7 yrs to pass a 4 yr degree.
I never even knew about the caste of my friends untill some of them got admissions they did not deserve. I never was told that lower caste people are made to clean toilets!!I dont know where you got that from??( Incidentally did you read the article on rediff abt the sulabh sauchalaya being run by Brahmins?)
Also, the best in my class did get into the IIT's. You want their email id's?
So, for middle class people like us merit is the only chance for us to get into the right places. And we work hard for that.We pay our taxes, dont arson or burn anything, we live normal lives and then some one weilding a caste certificate jumps ahead in the line giving us a huge slap on the face.
I respect ur difference of opinion but you look like a classical example of a person untouched by this issue..May be I am wrong.
P.S( the job that i got was through a campus interview.All my class mates got jobs the same way.
I changed my job after seeing a add on naukri.com. So please rethink. I was truly JACKLESS)
My Reply to Rupali's life story and India Awakening -
ReplyDelete1. I got 96 percent, but not course of choice - this is because even free seat students pay a donation under the table. If a student really loves a subject she should have no issues to take a loan, or shift to another city for education. Your main reason was economic- as you say you could not afford the education, so why do you want to blame backward castes for your father being poor ? Yes, some may come to college by car - maybe thier father is a driver or mechanic or office car or its a car for hire or they won a lottery etc. Don't feel bad, nowadays you can buy a car on installments too.
2. 50% seats are vacant - because even with reservation, backward classes are too backward to use the facilities. This is not because they do not study or are lazy . Some study twice or thrice more than general candidates, but they lack the basic foundation, money to buy costly books or afford tutions or even electricity to study at night and are unable to get the required marks. The few that do, may learn slowly and take 6-7 years to complete a course but that does not mean that he will be a bad doctor or engineer. Lots of people bloom later in life.
3. I never heard bad stuff about SC's - either you are deaf, regressed your memories, extreme introvert, living in an underground bomb shelter or plain lying. I have been hearing worse stuff than what I have written about from classmates, teachers (in prestigious schools/colleges of delhi), colleagues and relatives - and most of them laugh while saying it.
4. Creamy Jats in Rajasthan - got SC status in 1999 by a controversial decision by the then BJP government headed by Atal Bihari Vajpayee which is well known to make laws that support rich business class. Please don't blame Dalits for that.
5. Sam Patroda - is someone who does'nt support his own just coz he does not want to run the risk of getting a bit unpopular.
6. Reservation is Stealing - certainly not. Stealing is what upper caste political and administrative leaders at the central, state and local levels did over the past 58 years when they pocketed the crores of tax payers money sanctioned for education and development of Backward classes. Stealing is when upper classes pay Dalits a pittance for the hard manual work that they do. Stealing is the low marks and insults given to Dalit students by teachers and students in school to discourage them from seeking a higher education.
A point I want to add - Please students don't have so much 'Ghamand' over your high marks. Everyone knows the system of marking is faulty - lots of brilliant folks get bad marks and lots of duffers vice versa in the boards. AIIMS students may have got through a tough exam but that does not mean they are God's Gift to patients in India. No good doctor would allow patients to suffer by not attending to them and also refuse to allow ad hoc doctors to be appointed during thier absence from work. They should take the governments' concession to increase seats in equal proportion and end thier pointless strike which is a result of thier gigantic ego further inflated by the upper class media attention.
Life is a bitter sweet experience. You win some you lose some. So Rupali, maybe you cried on admission day, but today I see from your profile you are a successful Consultant in the United
"Don't have Ghamand?" - What kind of BS is this? Rupali was telling you how she worked very hard, but did not get admission in her favourite course because of reservation - and you have the audacity to call it ghamand?
ReplyDeleteI am an engineer. I had to give an entrance exam to get admission to the college. Out of 16000 candidates, my rank was 50. If I say this now, it is a statement of fact, not "Ghamand".
I have never discriminated against anyone because of caste. If some so-called "upper caste" person is proud of his caste, I think he is an idiot. But at the same time, I am against BS from the "other side" as well. Rupali made some very good points, told her poignant story, and all you did was disparage her and made irrelevant comments (e.g., about how easy it is to buy a car these days. You know what she was talking about - that several SC/ST students are actually from well-to-do families). And of course, you used non-sensical arguments to further your side of the story (e.g., how duffers get good marks and how brilliant students score poorly. Surely, this is an exception rather than the rule. Nine times out of ten, brilliant students WILL get good scores, and duffers WILL get poor scores).
So, if you really want people to take you seriously, you better learn not to sprout lies and total bullshit. Get a life, you idiot.
i only have questions
ReplyDeletei have no answers
your viewpoint posted
ReplyDeleteSaby
Dear Cyber Kitty,
ReplyDeleteThe more I read your comments the more I feel like filling you in with details about how admissions to engg colleges work.
I dont hold it against you for not knowing about the nitty gritties of this process.
1.No one can pay a donation for seats in a govt college. All seats are filled on the basis of either merit or caste. Say there are 40 seats of a stream and 20 are open, then all the 20 are filled only on the basis of merit.
2.Management quotas that you mention are in private colleges.SO to clear the idea, there was no one in those 20 open category people who got admissions who have a percenatge less than the cut-off.
3.Pardon me for not being able to highlight the other reason why I did not chose a private college. Most recruiting companies do not care to go to private colleges for campus recruitment.
4.I do not blame the BC/OBC for my father not being able to afford another college at all.I am speechless abt this comment and also about the comment on cars
5.I also lacked the basic foundation to afford tutions, so effectively do I qualify for some kind of reservation?
6.I am never aganist a person who was poor and who by virtue of his background never got good facilities.I will welcome them to move forward become strong in life.My story was about how screwed up the reservation system is where everyone other than the poor OBC gets admitted.
7.I never heard bad things about OBC's from my family the reason for that is none of those mentioned by you.My parents instilled the right virtues in me.You seem to think that this is not even a possibility.A good upbringing goes a long way in shaping ones character.
8.About the "ghamand" on good marks.I find this argument so difficult. Lets leave aside the word merit and look at the word qualified. The Govt of Maharashtra has set the marks in PCM as the basic qualifying criteria for engineering admissions.So once 2 people have been tested on a criteria the better qualified person has to get the preferrence. I am completely supportive of throwing in a extra consideration if one of the candidates is lesser prepared due to economic reasons or due to his background.But other than that I dont see what else can prevent better performance.Everything has a qualifying criteria. Beauty pagents need a person to be good looking and smart and answer well on a particular day.So this is not abt merit just chosing who is better qualified. If we were living in a perfect world then we would have them come on stage with no makeup and no normal clothes..
My point is that while making a choice there is a metrics , some quantification..
You dont know the plight of infrastructure in colleges.And you support more seats!!!IIT's and IIM's are premier institutes cause a chosen few are in them.If hordes of people start pouring out like cattle due to increased seats then they will soon loose their status
To summarise , I am expected to not be proud of my marks , not have a grudge when lesser qualified people go ahead of me ,shut my mouth when they keep asking for more even when i know that all the one who reallyy needs that seat will never get in, I have to work hard only to see others on a cushion of the caste and then people will turn around and call me the OPPRESSOR!!!! The PRIVILIGED ...WOW!!!!
Hi Cyberkitty,
ReplyDeleteA few hours ago I sent in quite an angry comment. It was quite rude too (it ended with, "Get a life, you idiot.")
I wish to apologise for my rudeness. It was unneccessary. Sorry.
I still disagree with you. I feel you are quite biased in your thinking. However, I should have expressed my disagreement in civil terms. So, sorry once again, and all the best for life.
hi cyberkitty, good to see a blog like yours. as if rupali is the only one who has not got into a course of one's liking! i don't understand the ire that is vented against the less previleged in cyber space. if not in the name of rights, at least in the name of humanity can't they see the point of different origins?
ReplyDeleteIt surprises me how naive and gullible some well educated people can be. India is a country where almost anything can be bought or sold with the right amount of money - no receipt is given for such transactions nor does anyone advertise how much they paid and to whom.....duh, they may face trouble with the law if they do. Tell me, have you seen the original marksheets of your classmates ? Are you sure they are not fake ? Can you be sure they really got the amount of marks they say they did ?
ReplyDeleteYes, campus recruitment happens only in a few colleges - that's coz 90 percent of job vacancies go to folks with 'Jack'. Please read my previous post Reservation for the Jackless in the private sector.
The lady who wins a beauty pageant, in most cases, personally knows the judges ( well known losers) , has worked with them on modelling assignments before, moves in the same Page 3 social circles or is close to someone who has a financial hold somewhere. eg. sponsors. Beauty may lie in the eyes of the beholder but many still look strangely misplaced and unfit even with makeup and fancy clothes. The point is, this is an imperfect world and the well qualified do not always get thier due, because there are lots of parameters that are held more important than just the basic 'good marks'.
It may be difficult to provide extra seats in AIIMS but it is not impossible. eg. temporary barracks may be constructed, like in the army. You don't learn less by sitting on the floor / sleeping on a mat. Though it may seem like 'the life of cattle' more than 90 percent of India live like this daily and it should not be something students have never experienced before. There are always other options too like PG or private mess.
Another thing I would like to add for the benefit of kids who have just passed thier 12 th -
Please, do not take seriously stories you may hear about folks with 95 percent plus not getting admission - marks mean nothing and there is absolutely no reason why you should'nt succeed in life, even if you flunk/ have a re-exam. PLEASE DON"T COMMIT SUICIDE, THERE ARE LOTS OF OPTIONS LEFT. Other's may be sour, media might publish nonsense about cut off marks etc. - don't worry, they keep doing flip flops just like Rupali who can't seem to decide whether she blames backward classes or not.
Remember, many try to be diplomatic about issues and brush the unpleasant truths under the carpet just coz they want to remain popular and be in the good books of society.
Good post, cyberkitty.
ReplyDeleteAnd to that anonymous idiot, It is "spout" dumbass, not "sprout". Guess your "merit" didn't get you very far in english proficiency.
Rupali's expression of her 'brunt of an uppercaste/class beingness' indicates the high sensitivity of her heart for her purely personal benefits / desires. Towards the similar genuine needs of the fellow social beings of other communities and cstes her heart is a solid rock. Generally such sensitive hearts are highly dangerous.
ReplyDeleteShe is also seen elsewhere in her comments of drawing some support from being culturally/morally nurtured by a mother.
Undoubted is it that the motherhood on this mother earth is so glorius. All the mothers on this mother earth seem to nurture their off springs of one of the fundamental moral values of equality of all human beings, at least spiritually, and also of compassionate consideration for those who lag behind and suffer.
But the case with the Indian mother is strikingly different. She has to sow, right from birth, the seeds of difference based on birth for their sole consideration of establishing a family with a male rogue of caste superiority complex and also an mcp - a male chauvanist pig.
The foetus of an upper caste gene is handicapped in two ways.
The very birth of a person into a family of caste superiority complex is highly wretched that it - the later, teaches him/her, right from birth, to treat the other caste persons as malicious and inferior by birth.
The birth entails brought up. The brought up in the same family consolidates, as the person grows, this heinous culture - hatred towards the other 'inferior' castes. The tragedy is that the Indian upper caste motherhood, which otherwise should have been a glorius status, to this extent, in the history of the humanity, is forced to carry this criminal trait.
Let us hope that at least, the modern mother first, renounces this role and second, undoes the bad effects of the uppercaste motherhood of earlier generations as a true tribute to their ignorant, insecure, dependent mothers.
Let us, then, see and even challenge that why India can't change and why this bloody heinous, cruel and criminal caste system is not eradicated.
But, is the modernism that, even in India, is more oriented towards consumerism than humanism capable of enabling the modern mother to enable their off springs to inherit the first human moral than the properties or the arrogance or the crookedness or the apathy of caste superiority complex?
It is often said and circulated that history does not excuse some crimes. But it is not true. I believe that history excuses. The generic nature of history is to excuse. Revenge is not found anywhere in the evolution of human species in the direction of advancement. Yes, of course, hsitory is very much ruthless and inexorable. It does not permit inhumanness for long. It does not take up a sympathetic view for continuation of it. It is resolute to continuously cut and finally end it with any amount of ruthlessness.
Also read these
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ambedkar.org/News/News051707.htm
http://anandnair.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=59910
http://anandnair.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=54426
1.JAT's didn't get SC/ST Quota.
ReplyDelete2.Please Read the history from www.jatland.com(Story of Swami Keswanand and Hari Ram Dhaka).
3.JAT's are not businessman.They are not wealthy.
4.Don't write this type of nonsence story without knowning history.
Shut up cyber kitty.
ReplyDeletei can show you more poor brahmans in tamil nadu than the so called rich obc's
I say all cuss words on you. stupid
cyberkitty's answer to rupali's comment proves that..even .if you give all the facilities to this so called 'backwards'.. they not only remain moron..they also convert into a ruthless, opportunistic, heartless creature..these cyberkitty type people are enjoying this quota generation after generation for 60 years.. not doing any good for this country..and even deprive the real needy section of backward classes.. decrease the productivity of the country...
ReplyDeleteyou, moron, cyberkitty.. you r so much idiot that even you just can't find out the point in rupali's reply.. before hurting her sentiment..you should remember that..your education to bank loan, govt. exam fees to your father's marriage..everything is done in subsidy or free as because this general category people pay the taxes..
by d way..please say the name of that lady doctor from aiims who remain 'only' as a 'housewife'....i think probably she is from qouta category like you, can't cope up with pressure of medical study.. and escape...
cyberkitty has no guts to approve my comment..bloody looser
ReplyDeleteYeah..I was just enjoying my cruise vacation...
ReplyDeleteBtw, even a second grader would know the spelling of 'loser'...